Kimi will be champion again. Maybe not this year, but he will be champion again.
He won the championship last year, 17 points behind and two races left in the season.
He'll bounce back.
Printable View
Kimi will be champion again. Maybe not this year, but he will be champion again.
He won the championship last year, 17 points behind and two races left in the season.
He'll bounce back.
World champion Kimi Raikkonen on Thursday did not rule out helping his Ferrari team-mate win the 2008 title, should his own championship chances continue to dwindle.
Felipe Massa, who is currently on top form in the sister F2008 after a shaky start to the season, insists he has not yet been conferred official number one status, despite his seven point advantage over Raikkonen in their pursuit of championship leader Lewis Hamilton.
"As always at Ferrari, the top priority is to do what is in the best interests of the team," commented Team Principal Stefano Domenicali. "That means both our drivers are very well aware that, if required, one will help the other in the closing stages of the championship."
"This happened last year, when Felipe helped Kimi after the point when it was clear that his own chances of getting the title had slipped out of reach. If the situation was to be reversed, then Kimi would do the same.
However, at the moment, there is no hierarchy between our two drivers because, currently and mathematically, there is not a big enough points gap between them, given there are still sixty points available."
Raikkonen is a renowned Spa Francorchamps specialist, and his hopes of getting his title quest back on track almost certainly rest upon a strong result this weekend.
But he was asked at the Belgian circuit on Thursday if he can imagine falling in line to back Massa. "It can happen," the Finn said. "We will see. It all depends on how the next races go and where we are at the end of the year. We race as a team."
"Hopefully we don't end up in this situation, hopefully I will be in the championship up to the last race. But you never know what happens," Raikkonen added.
Grid positions for the Belgian Grand Prix in Spa-Francorchamps:
1. Lewis Hamilton (GB) McLaren-Mercedes 1 min 47.338 secs
2. Felipe Massa (Brz) Ferrari 1:47.678
3. Heikki Kovalainen (Fin) McLaren-Mercedes 1:47.815
4. Kimi Raikkonen (Fin) Ferrari 1:47.992
5. Nick Heidfeld (Ger) BMW Sauber 1:48.315
6. Fernando Alonso (Spn) Renault 1:48.504
7. Mark Webber (Aus) Red Bull-Renault 1:48.736
8. Robert Kubica (Pol) BMW Sauber 1:48.763
9. Sebastien Bourdais (Fra) Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:48.951
10. Sebastian Vettel (Ger) Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:50.319
11. Jarno Trulli (Ita) Toyota 1:46.949
12. Nelson Piquet (Brz) Renault 1:46.965
13. Timo Glock (Ger) Toyota 1:46.995
14. David Coulthard (GB) Red Bull-Renault 1:47.018
15. Nico Rosberg (Ger) Williams-Toyota 1:47.429
16. Rubens Barrichello (Brz) Honda 1:48.153
17. Jenson Button (GB) Honda 1:48.211
18. Adrian Sutil (Ger) Force India-Ferrari 1:48.226
19. Kazuki Nakajima (Jpn) Williams-Toyota 1:48.268
20. Giancarlo Fisichella (Ita) Force India-Ferrari 1:48.447
I'm not saying this just because I don't like him, but I honestly don't understand how Hamilton can pull out half a second on everyone else.
Oh man,what a end of the race...I am so sad about Kimi :(:(:(:( and I am angry because of Hamilton
Raikkonen seemed to lose his cool no question about it. Hamilton hunted him down and it was Raikkonen who cracked. I think Ferrari have to start saying this is the end of his title challenge now.
GOOD NEWS!!!!
McLaren's Lewis Hamilton was stripped of a dramatic victory in the Belgian Grand Prix after stewards handed him a 25-second post-race penalty.
The Englishman was demoted to third place behind Ferrari's Felipe Massa and BMW Sauber's Nick Heidfeld.
The move came after an investigation into a late-race battle between Hamilton and Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen.
Hamilton's lead over Massa in the title chase has been cut by two points.
Massa's team-mate Raikkonen 19 points adrift off the lead
Before the penalty, he had extended his lead over the Brazilian to eight points, with Raikkonen effectively out of the running on 23.
That is great...Now I am happy :D:D:D
This just goes to show that ferrari hold too much influence within FIA, this is a complete joke, they break the rules last Race and get away with it, no drive thru, unlike any other team who pulls out dangerously, And now they get beat fair and square and Hamilton is penialised for winning. It makes the sport a farce!! One Rule for Ferrari and another for everyone else.:mad:
I can't say anything about the penalty because I wasn't aware of it until now. It was a great race for him but unfortunately his title challenge is now over. Unless of course he does what he did last year.
what a load ov rubish massa gets away with it again ay he shouldent have won last time
Oooh stop complaining, try being a Redbull fan
anyway
Race pics:
Attachment 15262Attachment 15263
Attachment 15264Attachment 15265
sorry dont do red bull macleren all the way hammy will do it in long run he showed whos boss at silverstone
Glory Supporter eh?
no not glory hunter just hate ferrari anybody can have it ut them
If you say so
all i can say is penalty stinks :mad:
Actually the penalty is fair. The rules state that if you pass someone going over a chicane, you have to let him past with a car length between you and the other car. Hamilton was right on Kimi's gearbox after he let him through. And why shouldn't Massa have won the previous race?
Because he's a Hamilton fan, and what says must be right
hammilton can lean it :laugh:
I can see this is going to be fun :laugh:
FYI Glock was also given a 25sec penalty for passing under a yellow flag...
Anyway here's the story from the F1 site:
Massa inherits Belgian win after Hamilton penalised
Ferrari’s Felipe Massa has been declared the winner of Sunday’s Belgian Grand Prix after McLaren’ Lewis Hamilton was handed a 25-second time penalty following the race. Hamilton drops to third place as a result, with BMW Sauber’s Nick Heidfeld moving up to second. McLaren plan to appeal the decision.
Hamilton was penalised after stewards decided he had gained an advantage by cutting the final chicane in his late-race battle with Ferrari’s Kimi Raikkonen. Raikkonen crashed out shortly after the incident, having the led the bulk of the race up to that point.
"I have often said that the race is not over until the official results are published and that was the case today," said Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali. "As usual, Ferrari will not comment on the stewards' decision. After the race, we were called to the stewards and we explained our position.
"We are very disappointed for Kimi, who had driven a great race and deserved the win, especially at this rather difficult time. This result is obviously very important for our championship hopes: now we must maintain maximum concentration and prepare as well as possible for the forthcoming races."
McLaren insisted they had little choice but to appeal the stewards' decision, given that Hamilton had immediately surrendered the lead back to Raikkonen on the start-finish straight, before then passing the Finn going into the La Source hairpin.
"We looked at all our data and also made it available to the FIA stewards," said the team. "It showed that, having lifted, Lewis was 6km/h slower than Kimi as they crossed the start-finish line. Having passed the lead back to Kimi, Lewis repositioned his car, moving across and behind Kimi to the right-hand line and then out-braked him into the hairpin. Based on this data, we have no option other than to register our intention to appeal."
The revised result means that rather than extending his championship lead over Massa, Hamilton now sees it cut, with the Briton heading the Brazilian by just two points, 76 to 74, with five races remaining.
Assuming their right to appeal is accepted, McLaren's case against Hamilton's penalty will be heard by the FIA's International Court of Appeal at a date to be determined.
Now for what the rules say:
16.3 The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident:
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping;
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.
c) a drop of ten grid positions at the driver's next Event.
However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 25 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Idiot.
I hope he learned his lesson now. Yes, he is extremely quick, but he is still a rookie.
This probably won't make me popular with Noxide...
I think Ferrari now have to make the call & back Massa for the championship. Next year Kimi can go for it again...
Let's be honest Kimi made a BAD mistake at the end of the race when he hit the wall. I know it must have been hell for them when it started raining but he's got enough experience to get through situations like that. I think the big problem was that he was desperate for the win to stay in the title challenge & that cost him dearly in the end :(
I agree. Unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by DipShyt
Mathematically it is still possible for him to win, but I think it would be wise of Ferrari to back Massa now.
I will defend my hero when it comes to the crash though. If you look at it again, you'll see that the back stepped out on the tarmac itself. Not even on the white line. He tried to correct it but gave just a little bit too much power. Not even the "great" Michael would've been able to straighten that car.
I hear you M8...Quote:
Originally Posted by Noxide
The back probably stepped out from to much throttle in the first place though :(
It did indeed, but I don't really blame him. He was under a lot of pressure after driving a perfect race. Just to have it ruined.Quote:
Originally Posted by DipShyt
Again.
Unfortunately that's the name of the game...Quote:
Originally Posted by Noxide
I wonder if Kimmi would have come in for wets, if he'd made it back to the pits that is.
I doubt it. There were only 2 laps left.Quote:
Originally Posted by DipShyt
I'm not so sure...Quote:
Originally Posted by Noxide
He was having a really tough time out there & the the guys that did take intermediates made up 30 seconds a lap...
Yes but a lap at Spa is 1:40.00 in dry conditions.Quote:
Originally Posted by DipShyt
I think Massa should have gone on intermediates though.
Not that it matters now. He won the race.:D
Apparently McLaren are going to "argue" the penalty they received. Surely they can't?Quote:
Originally Posted by Noxide
They can and they will. But nothing will come of it. And if something does come of it, then Amaway is right. The sport is a farce.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemmings
Just for different reasons.
I don't think anything will come of it. But geeeeeez, Hammy / McLaren fans are really ******! :laugh: :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Noxide
If I could give Fernando Rep, I would. :laugh::laugh:
Fernando Alonso believes the decision to strip Lewis Hamilton of his Belgian Grand Prix victory shows the FIA was right to overhaul the stewarding system for 2008.
In many expert observers' eyes, Hamilton's penalty for an apparently illegal pass near the end of the Spa Francorchamps race a week ago was evidence of either the FIA's incompetence or, worse, a pro-Ferrari bias.
But Hamilton's former McLaren team-mate Alonso believes that, for the first time, all infractions are now being dealt with consistently at races.
"The FIA decided to change (the system) after several big scandals of the past seasons," he told reporters in Madrid this week."
"This year, if you do something wrong, you pay. I touched a painted line in Valencia and I got a 10,000 Euros fine."
"The decision to change was done with very good judgement, because in the past four of five years, there were always surprises. You never knew what they were going to do," he said.
Ferrari driver Felipe Massa, meanwhile - the beneficiary of the Hamilton penalty - dismisses suggestions that the incident will discourage drivers to make risky overtaking moves.
"It is true that for good races you need good overtaking," the Brazilian told La Gazzetta dello Sport.
"But there is overtaking and then there's overtaking," he continued, explaining that after cutting the chicane, he believes Hamilton continued to use the advantage to immediately re-pass Kimi Raikkonen.
"He did not have the patience to wait for another corner and try again," Massa continued, "and the rules say he should be penalised."
Lewis Hamilton says he will not allow last Sunday's dramatic events in Spa to distract him at the Italian Grand Prix in Monza this weekend.
The McLaren driver was stripped of his Belgian GP win for cutting a chicane and the team are taking their case to the International Court of Appeal.
But Hamilton said: "I don't feel at all disheartened by what happened.
"I don't feel that there's a need for revenge. We want to win on the track. Winning in court is not what we want."
Hamilton had clinched a thrilling victory in Spa passing Ferrari rival Kimi Raikkonen, who later crashed out, as rain began to fall in the closing laps.
But the Englishman was handed a 25-second penalty that saw him drop to third and Ferrari's Felipe Massa promoted to race winner.
Officials judged Hamilton had gained an advantage by cutting the Bus Stop chicane in his battle with Raikkonen, but McLaren have lodged an appeal on the grounds that Hamilton immediately ceded the position back to the Finn.
The hearing will be heard by the court of appeal of Formula One's governing body, the FIA, before the end of the month.
With judicial proceedings under way, Hamilton had to watch his words but did say: "Everyone in the team thinks we've won the race on moral grounds.
"We just have to try our best to stay squeaky clean, stay out of trouble for the rest of the season, and not let them have any opportunity to put us in that position."
As well as examining whether Hamilton surrendered any advantage he gained by cutting the chicane when he let Raikkonen past him on the pit straight, the court may also examine the manoeuvre at the chicane.
Hamilton himself discounted suggestions that a lack of grip forced Raikkonen to brake earlier going into the chicane, causing the McLaren driver to veer off the track.
"We had the same amount of grip," said Hamilton. "That's the way he drives.
"If you don't have the balls to brake late, that's your problem.
"At the end of the day, in those situations, it's the driver who can feel the grip more, and put the car more on the edge.
we're coming here for a great win to beat them on home turf like last year
Lewis Hamilton
"I'm great in those conditions, and I felt the grip more than he did. I knew where to place my car, I placed it in a different position to him and I found the grip."
For now, the 23-year-old is determined to put the appeal to the back of his mind and focus on the looming battle with Ferrari in Monza.
Hamilton arrives at the Italian marque's home race two points ahead of Massa in the drivers standings but believes McLaren have the upper hand going into the weekend.
"I hope what has happened does not have an effect, and I plan to make sure it has no effect on the championship," insisted Hamilton.
"I still have a two-point lead and we will continue to attack and perform like we did in the last two races. If anything we can use this [the Spa incident] as our fuel to keep pushing.
"Massa is on his back foot. He has to work damn hard to keep up with me.
"We do have a close battle but I'm in a very strong position. I have a great car and we will continue to take points from them.
"I feel like I'm coming away from a win and moving on to the next race.
"We're having a great season battling the Ferraris and it's a real pleasure. But I think we're coming here for a great win to beat them on home turf like last year."
FIA Thursday press conference - Italy
Q: (Ian Parkes - The Press Association) Felipe, Lewis has just remarked at his McLaren press conference that despite what happened and the penalty in Spa, that he's coming here on a high, he feels like he's coming here as a race winner. I'm just wondering if, from your perspective, do you feel the same thing, that you're coming here as a race winner, even though the win was effectively handed to you by the stewards?
Felipe Massa: To be honest, I've given my ideas on this many times about what happened. What's happened is that he took an advantage by cutting the chicane. You can ask other drivers how many overtaking manoeuvres you see there: no overtaking. Going from the last corner to the first corner is such a small straight, so he took an advantage, that's clear, that's my opinion, so it doesn't change.
Q: (Dan Knutson - National Speed Sport News) Could I ask the other four drivers what they thought about that incident and Kimi, and as a follow-up, do you think you and other drivers might be afraid to fight for a position now that you might get a penalty?
Giancarlo Fisichella: I have just seen pictures, so it is difficult for me to say whether what happened was right or not. For sure, maybe, he took a small advantage, that's why he had the possibility, as Felipe said, to overtake him again in braking for turn one. But obviously, a 25s penalty was quite a strong penalty. As for the second question: when we get in the car and we're fighting to overtake a car, we don't think about that. We just try to do our best. Obviously we know if we cut a chicane or we take an advantage we need to back off and give the position back.
Sebastien Bourdais: Yes, I think the rules are very clear. Maybe the penalty was a bit hard, but I think he's made the same mistake twice: he's done it in Magny-Cours and he's done it again in Spa. I don't really understand why there's been such a mess around it. There's a rule book and everybody has to obey the same thing. The penalty is really rough but in the end it's up to you to give the position back or not. Pretty straightforward.
Nico Rosberg: Yeah, I definitely agree, because he did get an advantage, because he wouldn't have been that close behind Kimi had he not cut the chicane. But then again, I also think the penalty was a bit harsh as that did not have such a big effect on the actual race result in the end.
Jarno Trulli: Well, I agree completely with my colleagues. The penalty was quite big but I'm not a steward and I cannot decide what kind of penalty should be given. But on the other hand, it was very clear that he got an advantage out of it, so that's where it is. The rules are very clear. If you cut the chicane and you get an advantage, you just have to drop back and give back the position and in Lewis's case he shouldn't have attacked straight away at the next corner; that was it. On the other hand, with this new chicane, there is a lot of run-off, it gives you more chance to attack because in the case of a mistake, you wouldn't end up in a wall or in the gravel. If it was the case of Lewis in Spa, he wouldn't have gone much further than that. We have more chances to overtake.
Sebastien Bourdais: I think it was very clear and I agree as well. You have to be responsible for what you decide to do, and in this particular case, if you do gain an advantage like I said, you just give it back and make sure that you don't expose yourself to penalties. I think it's the easiest way to handle it. In my previous experience, my previous life in the States, it was actually a common thing. The stewards would not take action if you gave the position back, so I think it's only fair.
Nico Rosberg: I agree and I don't think it's going to stop us from trying to attack, definitely.
Q: (Ian Parkes - The Press Association) To any one of you: although it says in the rules you give a place back, does it say in the rules how much advantage you are supposed to give back? Because Lewis was effectively second both crossing the line - the time sheets prove that - and also going into the La Source hairpin. Just for clarification because we don't know the rules like you guys do.
Sebastien Bourdais: The rules are available for everybody to read I think and they are very clear. You gain an advantage, you gain an advantage. It doesn't matter how big it is, if you end up being in a position to pass at the next corner then you gain an advantage, because at that place, as everybody said, you are never going to be in a position to pass, if you exit the chicane normally behind the guy, because it stretches out, it's normal. It's very simple, I think.
Hamilton is making big K@k for himself.
1. Not even Michael Schumacher has ever said anything like "if you don't have the balls to brake late, that's your problem"
Who the hell does he think he is? :blink:
He's a F....... rookie in a quick car. That's all.
2. How is Massa on his back foot? "He's going to have to work damn hard to keep up with me" Bah!!!
Massa is only two points behind him because Hamilton made a rookie error!!!
What an IDIOT.
If I see that guy in person, I'll drive over him, reverse, and do it again.
While it is impressive that the entire 20 car F1 field is covered by some two seconds in qualification, the end result is that a car that is a fraction of a second faster than its opponent in race conditions is simply unable to overtake come Sunday afternoon.
Formula One has set up an ‘overtaking working group’ which aims to make races more entertaining for race fans in 2009 with the introduction of KERS, adjustable front wings and slick tyres. In the meantime passing –within the rules – is proving to be quite a challenge for the race drivers.
The sport is going to be a complete joke next year.
BEAUTIFUL!!!
The way it should be.
Attachment 15545
1 S Vettel (Ger) Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1min 37.555secs
2 H Kovalainen (Fin) McLaren-Mercedes 1:37.631
3 M Webber (Aus) Red Bull-Renault 1:38.117
4 S Bourdais (Fra) Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:38.445
5 N Rosberg (Ger) Williams 1:38.767
6 F Massa (Bra) Ferrari 1:38.894
7 J Trulli (Ita) Toyota 1:39.152
8 F Alonso (Spa) Renault 1:39.751
9 T Glock (Ger) Toyota 1:39.787
10 N Heidfeld (Ger) BMW Sauber 1:39.906
11 R Kubica (Pol) BMW Sauber 1:36.697
12 G Fisichella (Ita) Force India-Ferrari 1:36.698
13 D Coulthard (GB) Red Bull-Renault 1:37.284
14 K Raikkonen (Fin) Ferrari 1:37.522
15 L Hamilton (GB) McLaren-Mercedes 1:39.265
16 R Barrichello (Brz) Honda 1:36.510
17 N Piquet Jr. (Brz) Renault 1:36.630
18 K Nakajima (Jpn) Williams 1:36.653
19 J Button (GB) Honda 1:37.006
20 A Sutil (Ger) Force India-Ferrari 1:37.417